"Gay bars are closing. Maybe that's a good thing"

Writer laments lack of Queer, Trans and POC representation in today's gay bars.

[quote] Perhaps we can

Perhaps not.

OP, can you give us a precis of this speculative, overlong puff-piece?

From the author's website:

I am currently writing a memoir about what it means to live in a body with so many confusing identities

Which tells you all you need to know

Funny, during my regular gay bar going days (the 90s-mid aughts) there were lots of black people, hispanics, drag queens, and some transies. There was even a black gay bar called the Raven. I didn't go there often, and I always felt a bit like I was intruding when I went there with my black friends.

This paragraph blew me away OP. Powerful stuff:

“The first time I went to a gay bar (in D.C.), I was called ‘Fish’ in line and my crotch was grabbed later that night,” Lisa Guraya, a 25-year-old account supervisor, tells me. “Every time I am at a gay bar I’m shoved into or bumped literally like I’m invisible, and it’s hard to not feel like I’m invisible because [gay men] don’t want to fuck me.”

Every single gay bar in America could close and still no one will want to fuck you sir.

Sir? Sir?

That’s LITERAL VIOLENCE!!

[quote] Writer laments lack of Queer, Trans and POC representation

Just what is that? What does "representation" mean nowdays?

R6 I believe it means that if anyone is sharing the same space as them then all of those people must prioritize them as potential partners whether they're attracted to them or not.

That is an unnatural notion, R7. I refuse to do so.

So another think piece about a minority that only wants to sleep with white jocks complaining about white jocks who only want to sleep with white jocks?

The trannies want to force gay men to have straight sex and if they don’t get their way, they’ll cry bigotry and burn it all to the ground.

I fucked around with a lot of guys during my clubbing days, lots of white guys, black guys, hispanic guys, Europeans visiting the US, older guys, younger guys (legal) and I even ran into a drag queen I knew from the bars, and he was cute and wire/muscled out of face, and I fucked him too. I was an equal opportunity slut as long as the presentation at the time was male, and the cock was factory installed.

No aftermarket cock for you, huh?

Woke gays blithely invited in the malignant TQ+ tumor, which is now not only eroding the rights same-sex-attracted people fought for decades to achieve, but mocking us too.

Females entering gay male spaces and then being ignored. It's criminal!

Woman established nightclub which does not allow men. It is celebrated. Why can't gay clubs exclude women?

That club is not actually for lesbians, r15, and you can enter as a man if you say you're a woman.

Who wants to go to a gay bar, only to be hit on by FTM who doesn't understand that you are a gay man attracted to other gay men?

And then hear an earful about how transphobic you are.

They should show up at an urban straight nightclub and see what happens.

Most people don't want to fuck trans/generqueer people. They are not attracted to them at all, that's just how it is.

I mean seriously, how many people on planet Earth would want to fuck someone who looked like this.........

“If all the gay bars are closing, then how will I teach my super homophobic boyfriend who gives off bad vibes an important lesson about tolerance! Gay spaces are reserved for straight women to take some weird stand!”

I like gay bars. Yes, there's many more non-gay places that are gay friendly generally - and I go to those places. But a "gay bar" is still nice every so often. "Lack of representation"? Due to the declining numbers of gay bars, I tend to find that the remaining gay bars are more of a hodge podge of races, sexual identities, etc. than before. Not that such places didn't exist previously and not that "problematic" (based on the criteria or the article's writer) don't exist.

He’s actually attractive. ^

When he’s not a she.

These people simultaneously hate gay men while grasping and clawing at our spaces and identities.

Pretty much r23.

They all want hot, white, masculine guys no matter what they really say. Think Chris Evans. But guys like that are never going to fuck them and they're bitter as hell about it.

"Guaraya says the rejection she experiences in gay bars is multi-faceted: As a queer woman, she feels like the only women who are welcomed in those spaces are, ironically, straight."

So you should fit right in then, love. All 'queer' women are str8 LARPers imo

Pussy looks like an alien thing with lips, bearded women don't understand that we don't want their smelly fish caves. They think like a female. The bisexual men in porn that fuck these creatures have warped their brains into thinking real gay men want pussy.

Definitely NOT a good thing

I’d love to see all the straight women who feel entitled to gay spaces do the same shit at an all black bar. They won’t. But it would be funny to see them try.

Bulldoze the homos because you can get away with it. That’s all it ever is. And fuck the actual gay people who embolden people to do this. They’re not your “allies” — to them you are a freak and a secondary character in the main storyline that is their life.

[quote]"I suppose my ideal gay bar would be a gay bar that isn’t idealistic,” he says. “A place where people are patient, and forgiving, and open. Maybe if we don’t hold one another to particular ideals, we can actually discuss some interesting ideas."

I was going to say that this person doesn't understand what a bar is, but that doesn't go far enough. This person doesn't understand people, let alone places.

Exactly r30. This person lives in a fantasy world and wants a fantasy version of what he/she/they thinks a gay bar should be. Life just isn't like that.

The author of the article isn't going to "build" anything but zir/their/its Twitter followers. These/Zize "folx" do nothing but whine online like dozing bodies dreaming in the Matrix.

Fuck the writer. Fuck them right in the ear.

They are destroying a wonderful, rich culture.

I thought people like this were leaving Twitter en masse, R32, because it’s now “unsafe” for them to spew their bullshit, especially now that they don’t have greasy unkempt tranny moderators protecting them should they actually have their opinions challenged?

So many people in this thread reiterating what others already posted, does anyone actually read the prior posts anymore?

If these cisgay spaces can’t modernize and keep up with the times then they deserve to close for their small mindedness and exclusionary ways. No one needs to go to unsafe places.

r36 they're not "unsafe," they just don't cater to every whim of whining narcissistic freaks like the author of that article. And people like the author see hot guys having fun and hooking up with each other, which makes him seethe with jealousy.

This also stinks of "Someone should want to fuck me and if not it's trans/femme phobia! SHRIEEEEKKKK!"

Where is this narrative about gay spaces not being diverse coming from? I came out and started clubbing in the 00s in a part of the world that was pretty white at the time and still all the diversity there was ended up in the gay clubs. So I don’t get why people are now acting like these places have never been like this?

I did laugh at the complaints that no one wanted to fuck her at a gay male club: OF COURSE THEY DIDN’T! What does she not understand about homosexuality?

It’d be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic!

I love so many muthafuckas right here in this thread.

If I listed them, you’d call me a Ho, but I’m gonna find my husband in here!

The writer is the femmiest femme to ever fem.

It's really about economics.

Gay bars became irrelevant a long time ago. Once we went main stream the magic dissipated.

You can hook up now from your couch.

The tranny bullshit, bachelorette invasions and Covid just finished the job.

[quote] On one occasion, at a bar called The Boiler Room, an older man walked up to me and told me he was a “rice queen,” expecting me to be flattered by such a horrendous pronouncement. The worst part: I remember actually feeling flattered that someone was acknowledging me.

What is so “horrendous” about that?

[quote]They should show up at an urban straight nightclub

Or a black straight club if that's what you mean.

[quote] Black trans and nonbinary people are being murdered at unprecedented rates

So brave.

It’s a good thing, if you’re homophobic.

Every time some mentions that fucking word "cis" I want to stab them. Pardon me for living up to my XY chromosomes and Irish skin.

[quote] In fact, just last week at a bar in Brooklyn, a gay white man made a bottom joke and pushed a cue stick against my butt cheek.

I’m not sure what the point of mentioning this was? Seems very mild lad behaviour.

Also, I think the big issue here is conflating gay culture solely with the night club thing. People in nightclubs tend to be drunk or on drugs and really just after dancing and hopefully sex. It’s not really the place people want to go to have deep and meaningful discussions.

It’d be nice if gay men treated each other better in night clubs but I’m not sure it’s much different among straight people when out on the town either. I think we all could tell horror stories about someone being awful in a night club but conversely I’ve never really experienced mean gay men in any other environment.

Stop looking for validation from people YOU are putting in an elevated position due to their looks and enjoy the people you are with. Honestly, you’re not missing much anyway - the few times I hooked up with guys like that was very disappointing - selfish in bed isn’t as hot as you might think it will be when you look at these guys.

[quote] I’ve never really experienced mean gay men in any other environment.

Well… maybe with the exception of DataLounge… hehe.

He has a recent article here on cruising:

From the article at R51:

[quote]New York’s new parties also feel notably more welcoming to queer and trans people of color than the parties of even just five years ago.

So then what’s the problem?

“Queer”

“Support Trans Kids”

They finally figured out how to psychologically fool us and get us to unknowingly embrace their homophobia and conversion therapy.

[quote] A similar thing can be said for many cruising spots and sex parties where, if you weren’t a certain type of person, you probably felt pretty undesired. “Even in cruising contexts, there are different definitions of what beautiful is, what is attractive,” said Tin Vo, a postdoctoral researcher who has studied the ways in which discrimination affects gay men’s mental health.

If you're not cute and fit, you're not going to find many people who want to fuck you. That's just life. Always has been and always will be. And if you go to a party that's specifically meant for sex and cruising, you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're not cute and fit.

That is so untrue, though. Every time we discuss cruising I relay this story that happened to me.

I was cruising a woods near me where it was active but, as I like to say, the odds are good, but the goods are odd. Anyway, in walks this smoking hot muscle dude dressed as though he just came from the gym and was stopping in for a blowjob before heading home. I thought “hot damn! I’ve got at least 20 years and probably 50 pounds on anyone else here.”

This muscle dude went straight for the guy who was the spitting image of Santa Claus—white beard and belly and all—and started blowing HIM. You never know what gets someone off.

Yeah I think sex between men is pretty easy to find among all types of fellas, but you just can’t expect you will get to fuck everyone who takes your fancy.

What is not going to happen is gay men lining up to fuck you if you have a vagina.

This Queen needs to give it a fucking REST!

I imagine he doesn't have any stats on just who or what the "queer" market is, or if they'd actually come out spend money in his imagined "queer spaces"? Also the economics of bars and clubs which primarily serve gay black patrons is very different from those where the majority of gay patrons are white. Don't fucking come for me, I've worked in nightlife for years and I'm just reporting the facts.

Don’t “cisgay” me, you fuckwit R36.

It is interesting that instead of organizing to build their own inclusive Queer bars, these people want bars that cater mostly to GWM to go out of business?

[QUOTE] I did laugh at the complaints that no one wanted to fuck her at a gay male club: OF COURSE THEY DIDN’T! What does she not understand about homosexuality?

To be fair she was complaining about being called fish, and about being ignored and bumped into.

To be fair, R60, she did boil it down to: "because [gay men] don’t want to fuck me."

Articles like make me more thankful and grateful that in my younger days, I went to gay bars and clubs. BTW, I'm Mexican-born, mild cerebral-palsy and of short stature, and I never felt unwelcome.

R59 this is a really good point. I’m so many cases now people want to tear down what is there rather than get creative and work on something they would like better.

^IN so many cases, sorry.

The writer goes to bars and clubs and sees too many white gay guys and feels sad.

Is he sad they are white? Sad they are gay? Sad they are male? I think he's really just sad they exist!

Where does he think these gay white men should be permitted to go? Anywhere?

Glad to hear your experience wasn't literal violence, R62.

The uncomfortable truth R65 is that these bars and LGT Centers are owned and run mainly by gay men, and usually white gays. The primary financial support doesn't come from trans etc, even though they obtain a lot of services at these places. Apparently this really sticks in some people's craws.

[quote]this is a really good point. I’m so many cases now people want to tear down what is there rather than get creative and work on something they would like better.

Because these broke-ass trans/nonbinary/genderqueers don't have any fucking $$$ and can't start their own bars or clubs.

Also, they really wouldn't want to anyway because they're all obsessed with hot, masculine white gay men. Despite all their whining and protestations about "cis white gays," they're the only ones these freaks want to fuck and be in relationships with.

[quote]Maybe that’s a good thing

“No more deviancy in my neighborhood”

I think the hard left is so awful. They are evil.

R68 - it’s fascinating how much they hate us but want to be us, have us, have our culture, history, lingo, money… I don’t think we always had this economic advantage either - we had to work hard for a lot too. There’s so little resilience in people now, it seems.

I think a lot of gay people are sympathetic but you can only be told how hateful you are for so long before you think “fuck it”. They’re creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The author is Latino, Asian and queer, oh brother

Is the writer a man, or woman?

Well, they DID start a club night. That's a plus, I guess.

Is he friends with this girl?

[quote]The primary financial support doesn't come from trans etc, even though they obtain a lot of services at these places.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Bars and clubs are ENTERTAINMENT and DRINKING places. They are not social services centers. The number of "trans" (all definitions and variants) is a teeny percentage of the population, unable to keep any business afloat by themselves, of course. Many people you describe may not chose to ever go to gay nightclubs period!

Again, the transies and their amplifiers need to un-convince themselves that for-profit businesses owe them something special! What "services" do trans people obtain in clubs? Come be a paying customer or don't, it's entirely up to you!

[quote]Bars and clubs are ENTERTAINMENT and DRINKING places. They are not social services centers.

But people like the author of OP's article apparently want them to be charities.

Wait until these "charities" find out they need a liquor license!

[quote]It is interesting that instead of organizing to build their own inclusive Queer bars, these people want bars that cater mostly to GWM to go out of business?

Scorched earth. “If I’m not welcome, shut the shit down!!”

[quote]To be fair she was complaining about being called fish, and about being ignored and bumped into.

Is she a homosexual, though? That’s all I care about. Because if “she” ain’t got a dick, I, nor probably 7/8s of that bar are not interested.

R79 and the weird thing is, in my experience gay clubs DO welcome many types of people. Perhaps this is different in the huge cities like LA or what have you, but mostly you see a variety of people in gay bars.

Unless you associate ‘being welcome’ with everyone wanting to fuck you, then you’re going to be miserable.

I mean for god’s sake, I’m a gay, white male and it’s not like we don’t get rejected too. This is a very ‘the grass is greener’ mentality.

SOOOO many of the LGBTQUIA++++++ community in New York City has blasted a few of the popular clubs/bars in the past year. Accusations of racism at the door/who they let in etc. It got to the point where some of these places started offering discounts to people of "underserved communities" THEY ARE BARS AND CLUBS NOT SOCIAL CHARITIES. But social media came down hard on these places and they had to buckle, I guess.

R82 Similar to DC where one bar got bit particularly hard on a racism “scandal.” But the big mistake is buckling; the minute you apologize or give in, activists smell weakness and will go after you even harder.

R83, I’ve noticed that too - sorry and a commitment to change is never good enough. Pity they don’t put that much energy into taking down those causing the worst problems in this world.

[QUOTE] Similar to DC where one bar got bit particularly hard on a racism “scandal.” But the big mistake is buckling; the minute you apologize or give in, activists smell weakness and will go after you even harder.

Is that the JR bar, R83? I was just reading reviews online and some were saying the bar is anti-Latinx and also anti service animal.

[quote]is anti-Latinx

How could anyone be anti-anything if that thing doesn’t even exist?

[quote] anti service animal.

What aren't people thinking of the anti service animals ? ! ? !

"I walked into JR's this afternoon to sit and do some work, while I figured out where I'd stay tonight. I was having a fine time, in the mostly empty bar, with music videos streaming above. My service dog sat directly beside me. About 45 minutes and two beers in, a man approached me from behind and tapped me on the shoulder. As I turned, he immediately told me I would need to move to a corner of the bar, because the bar was going to get crowded and my dog could get stepped on. While I appreciate his desire to protect my service animal, I told him that I did not want to move since there was less than 15 people at the spacious bar at the time. He snapped and told me he didn't want to hear about it when my dog got hurt. I didn't understand. I was literally sitting at the bar doing work, which I wouldn't have been able to do if the bar was out-of-hand, and a stranger starts telling me I need to get out of the main bar area. I asked him to calm down and told him he was coming at me wrong. He got defensive and so I asked if he owned the bar or was just a bouncer trying to prepare for crowd control. He informed me he was a co-owner of the bar. I asked do you know the law regarding disabilities and service animals? He didn't respond. Instead he just came back aggressively with an insult. I told him I'd be happy to show him the law if he wasn't familiar. He said, "I'm done here" and stormed off. I asked the bartender if this person really was a co-owner, and he said yes. I cannot believe the owner's behavior and shortness with a customer, especially one who chose his establishment after reading how welcoming it was to those in the LGBTQ community. I was unaware because I'm from NJ and have been driving for the past three days stopping along the way to rest. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. The owner's actions are a clear violation of the ADA and frankly hurtful. As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I expect more. I expect patience and understanding from owners in our community, not aggression. I ask anyone who reads this to consider if this is a place they want to support going forward. I have PTSD. Not because I chose it or want, but bc I endured years of child abuse. And my dog is my companion. We need to respect each other better and it starts with those in leadership positions!"

The problem is when you want to go home with someone from the bar. Do you bring the service animal to their apartment or does it spend the night in the car?

That's where this gets tricky.

What a delicate flower the PTSD person is. Why not just stay home, then?

R88 I assume you have cut and posted that very long cry for attention from another source.

It used to be that the gay community protested against politicians, movies or celebrities, etc that were considered anti-gay.

Nowadays you have people who supposedly part of the community protesting the community itself.

Yes, R192, the so-called 'gay community' has become incestuous and decadent.

Which is why some sensible people (and eldergays) feel they have no part in the current so-called 'gay community'.

[quote]you have people who supposedly part of the community

I doubt they are, they probably didn’t suppose gay rights back—ever. These are fringe people with extreme views who most likely never voted in previous elections.

[quote]Yes, [R192], the so-called 'gay community' has become incestuous and decadent.

I agree with this.

Imagine that. A future of "gay bars" where the clientele are all straight people doing a genderbend cosplay because they're too ugly to get laid otherwise.

^ Arnold Toynbee agrees as well.

R88 You need to go to a Starbucks.

You can't see your screen in a dimly-lit Gay Bar.

What fucking loser brings their emotional support dog to a fucking gay bar

R97 that could be a good premise for a Netflix series, circa 2030 AD.

[QUOTE] You can't see your screen in a dimly-lit Gay Bar.

We did hear complaints from Queer womyn that most gay bars were "scary caves".

Lesbians have to put up with more trans shit than gay men. both at michfest and in supposedly female spaces like restrooms.

The author is referring to the type of men in the article below.

And just so you know, calling someone "fish" is hate speech.

The author is weird. I live in Chicago and although Boystown always gets criticized for being mostly white, the bars/clubs in the areas are filled with people of color. I just went to Sidetrack and there was tons of diversity.

r105 Lol, 'shon faye' is a crossdressing male, not a woman. 'she' doesnt know shit.

I’ve not heard of calling women ‘fish’ before coming to this website. Is it an American thing?

It’s an ageing gay man thing - if I see it on here it gets an FF from me, and I’m an ageing gay man.

I’m not American, either. Just not a misogynist.

In the 70s it was Miss, Mrs., and MIZ. It was a fad and it went away. Cis, non-binary and the other nonsense will too when people get their heads out of their asses and their parents stop buying their basement dwelling spoiled brats X-Box gift cards for their 40th birthday and the real world hits them in the ass.

To deal with this issue, we first need to determine if it's lesbians or straight women who are entering gay male spaces.

How are trans and various genderqueer individuals with penis accepted in lesbian bars?

[quote]And just so you know, calling someone "fish" is hate speech.

Oh, FFS.

Talk about diluting real hate speech. Will you ever learn that cries like this and “that’s racist!!!!” take away from the real atrocities that go on?

R116 Like kleptos being given government positions.

Calling women fish is an expression of hatred against women, r116, even it's not quite in the same category as the crime of hate speech. Hate speech laws are part of the reason for this surge in hysteria, trying to get everything labelled as "hate speech" so as to criminalise people you disagree with.

Queer = trans, NB, and straight woman going through a phase

The bullshit article at R111 was authored by the person whose butchered, emaciated body graced the cover of New York Magazine at this time last year. The same person who, pre-transition, arranged their own "rape".

[quote] In the 70s it was Miss, Mrs., and MIZ. It was a fad and it went away.

No it didn’t. And it’s Ms, you dummy.

[quote]The same person who, pre-transition, arranged their own "rape".

Wait, WHAT? Do I want to know..?

[quote] The owner's actions are a clear violation of the ADA and frankly hurtful.

How is asking him to move to a less crowded spot a violation of the ADA? He didn’t say the animal couldn’t be there. Having a service animal doesn’t give you immunity from following social norms and all criticism.

[quote] The same person who, pre-transition, arranged their own "rape".

Details please.

[quote] It is interesting that instead of organizing to build their own inclusive Queer bars, these people want bars that cater mostly to GWM to go out of business?

But why wouldn’t you want these dangerous places shut down? Would you want Klan meetings to be shut down or let them continue out of site? Would you want Nazi’s to shut down or let them continue to be in existence? Some problematic cisspaces just need to be shut down and nipped in the butt.

Oh good grief, I looked up this Gabriel Mac person and she has a site called The Faggot-Witch Whenever. Yet another one of these insane people throwing that word around as though that's not extremely offensive (we've been discussing this topic on another thread recently).

She also sounds nuts. The titles of her articles sound ridiculous, ie "This Morning, I Woke Up and Pooped in a Truck". Who wants to know about THAT?

Bravo r111! Gay men want to be around other MEN, not the parade of circus freaks that want to shame us. But at the same time still want nothing more than to fuck us.

[quote]The same person who, pre-transition, arranged their own "rape".

I don't know the details of this, but it does remind me how that Drew Gregory (on the "faggot" thread) wrote in one of their articles that sometimes they just want a straight man to rape them because then it would apparently validate them as a woman. This stuff is chilling!

Drew Gregory looks like the lead singer of an 80s hair metal band.

He looks pretty good. Got the masculine face down. Could pass as a man.

Oh haha I looked up the gross freak writer. I cannot remember enough details to post here but do remember it's a mentally ill privileged white liberal woman who gets euphoric about being a fake victim all the time.

Yes "cis hetero married twice and divorced" first world privileged white leftist woman craved some more thrill, staging her "RAPED in HAITI"

HER pathetic face? Comically so female. Even after tits off and with artificial facial hair

I seriously hope Drew is getting some therapy, because all this desire for validation is potentially going to lead Drew to some pretty dangerous places if not careful.

[quote]Yes "cis hetero married twice and divorced" first world privileged white leftist woman craved some more thrill, staging her "RAPED in HAITI"

Wait, so she went to Haiti and pretended this happened to her, or she went and set it up somehow? That is making me feel nauseous.

R137 Staging her own rape. Asking her sexual partner to beat her etc

Drew looks very much like he would've been a gay boy, but he says he identified as lesbian very early on, before he even identified as a woman.

It's interesting that he now talks like the expert on all things lesbian. That's got to feel weird to actual lesbians.

And now I feel mean, because I do believe people can live their own lives, but it has to be said that when it encroaches on other people's cultures/groups, it does seem... well, "odd" is the word. Like how it feels to me when some women think they are gay men. Like, live your life how you want, but why are you telling US what being a gay man is like?

Oh jeez, R139. That is so sad. I'm a big ol' Mary, I know, but this woman is SERIOUSLY disturbed and needs help. Perhaps I shouldn't be telling her how to deal with her PTSD, maybe that's wrong. But that seems so dangerous of a thing to do.

Feelings. Nothing more than feelings. Negate reality. In Modern times....

Feelings, woe woe woe, Feelings....

As white people have been told, loudly, since 2020, "some things just aren't for you". Well, some things just aren't for every "queer +++++" person. Some places are for gay men to meet, drink, dance and hook up. Not everything is for you, LGBTQUIAELIWOQLDOE+++ people. Start your own "spaces" and leave ours alone.

R143, tell me you have cis privilege without telling me you have cis privilege.

R145, tell me you have cis privilege without telling me you have cis privilege.

Tell me you have "queer" privilege without telling me you have "queer" privilege when people like you decide to invade "cis" spaces and tell us how things are going to go. Find your own spaces if you want things to be destroyed to suit your tastes.

The whole thing reeks of: "It's problematic that you're not paying attention to ME!"

You keep saying that like it's a bad thing, R146.

To have your head in the sand in the year 2023 and not know anything about diversity and intersectionality is a bad thing.

I know everything I need to know about those things. I choose to live in the intersection of reality and truth, not wherever Land of Fantasy Bullshit you're residing in.

"Cis Privilege" is really just not feeling the need to pretend to be something you're not.

Diversity and intersectionality = Everyone is a special butterfly with extra special rights and entitlements unless they are white/gay/lesbian, in which case they are garbage. We believe so much in equality and the evil of bigotry and supremacy that we've looped around and created new demographics to subjugate and hate.

Poor Drew. Once they went gay clubbing and got hit on by a man! Don't people realise Drew is a lesbian?

[quote]For others, like me, the assumption that I was a gay man filled me with a different kind of invalidation. Maybe your frustration with the space is because you’re not yet settled in yourself. The more comfortable you feel with your own identity, the less importance those around you will hold. The straight people and Gay Men™ won’t matter. The space is queer, because you are queer.

Do gay men want another man who once had a vagina?

Move your head along with this GIF and you have your answer.

HELL NO!

My mouth's watering, R155.

[quote] On the day I [bold]heard that my penis would be huge, I sobbed[/bold]...I woke up last December in a hospital bed and before even glancing toward my lap, the room spinning from anesthesia and my lungs partially collapsed from four and a half hours on surgical ventilation and hundreds... ... — plural — of stitches and a 40-square-inch [bold]hole in my thigh where I’d been skinned down to the muscle[/bold], I could suddenly feel, in a way I could never have fathomed, that this was what [bold]being alive[/bold] was

"My Penis, a Love Story - NYMag" "An asexual gay man with a penis and a vagina" "I didn't need a penis to be a man."

"Days before my penis's first birthday, the warmth and weight of it lay against my vulva, each supporting the other, holding me"

Isn't Drew fucking a vagina-having woman? (a "lesbian" relationship... according to the lgbTQIA+ freak cult) Was he a gay boy? So another successful conversion therapy story?

R153, If you truly believe that then it means you know nothing. Why does you take a DEI class sometime?

My understanding, R159 is that he was born a boy, felt he was a lesbian because he really wanted to be part of the community, and a few years ago transitioned to a female who identifies as a lesbian, but has also slept with other people with penises too, where they are both "lesbians". He's now dating Elise Bauman, an actress who played the lead in that webseries, Carmilla.

The crowd that denounces appropriation is literally obsessed with appropriating.

That's what strikes me too, R162. They spend all their time lecturing others about things they are actually doing themselves.

R151 Jessica Christ, how the fuck do they keep their alters straight?

R127 “cisspaces”? If that’s a joke then it’s fucking funny - well done. If it’s not then you’re a fucking lunatic - well done too!

I hate being this person, but the phrase is also "nipped in the bud", not "butt"... though there are plenty of butts out there I wouldn't mind gently nipping with my teeth...

Ftm are now getting penises made from flesh attached to their vaginas.

The hell with FTM, they will never be men.

I know! Open your own bars!

The author of the article: Ian Kumamoto.

Well, if the gay bars close there'll be less alcoholism among gay men--a major problem that gets scant attention.

^ Most of the alcoholics I've known watch their cost per oz. and don't do that much drinking at bars, because the price there is way higher than the alcohol they buy at the store.

For some reason I thought title read, [italic] “Gay legs are closing. Maybe that's a good thing.”

(!!!)

This reminds me that a few years ago, the Los Angeles Public Library had a display matchbooks from bygone gay bars in the L.A. area. I know the collection doesn't have them all, because I looked for a few that I didn't see.

R173 The fear of god might be good for a few.

The "queer" EnBee blue-haired nose-ring set think they're 'reinventing' culture when they're just picking old gay culture as 'camp' like they've discovered a new shiny toy. But when it doesn't squeak the way they/zi want, they destroy it.

That's a cool project, R174!

I think I agree with you, R177. They don't understand the history too, and are trying to rewrite is as what they want it to be. What seems so awful is that when it's pointed out to them by people who know better, those people get tarred with the "problematic" brush. I

Sorry, R179, I had a few more sentences about my love of history and the importance of finding truths in it rather than just what we want to see, but couldn't explain myself properly, so I deleted it. Unfortunately, left the "I" there, doh!

I had bated breath R180. Thanks for responding. 100% agree with what you've written.

I think we have lost control of the facts and that our history has become divisive and is employed as a weapon.

Absolutely, R181! I think we have to just reiterate the facts when the opportunity arises, without getting aggressive (which just leads to us being dismissed as "cis gays" or whatever). Just over and over, unapologetically.

I am watching a lot of stuff on parts of our history lately, and it frustrates me to think of people altering it for political reasons.

Heh, R99! That song takes me back!

I remember when it played on TV they would even censor the word "war", I guess because the whole Iraq thing had just happened, but that always seemed so weird to me.

Articles like these make me wonder if these writers have this imagined storyline in their heads that when they walk into a gay bar or club that the whole world will stop, acknowledge their presence, say hello and say WELCOME! WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR YOU!

That's what it seems like. The writer is just average looking and who knows how he comports himself.

He doesn't mention what he was wearing to said gay bar when they put the cue stick at his butt and said "bottom". If he's prancing around in some daisy dukes or skin-tight shirt while spinning and sipping his cosmo - well, WTF are we supposed to think?

SO many of these articles are complaint pieces about why they don't own the club by being the mediocre, try-hards where the world doesn't embrace the vision they have of themselves in their heads.

And no matter what - even if there are these non-binary, open, inclusionary places - SOMEBODY is gonna complain and say it's not what they wanted or expected.

Tough shit.

Their degrees in CRT and Gender Studies did not equip them with the skills to open bars of their own.

Gay (male) bars will at least let these women (and trans) in the places. I've heard of men being kicked out of lesbian bars. And then there's Michfest.

[quote]this woman is SERIOUSLY disturbed and needs help.

She said it was her therapist who suggested the idea of staging her own "rape" to cope with having to witness the aftermath of a Haitian woman's gang rape while she was there after the 2010 earthquake, but who knows. These people unashamedly lie all the motherfuckin' time.

"Sometimes staging your own rape is the only way to heal the pain."

Fuck, R188, I just snort-laughed so loud there. "Help me, Oleebia!"

R187, what sort of fucking therapist suggested that? Sounds like a lie to me too, otherwise that is a therapist who people should be careful of, I would say!

[quote]Gay (male) bars will at least let these women (and trans) in the places. I've heard of men being kicked out of lesbian bars. And then there's Michfest.

This is very true! Why are we letting people change the narrative? I've never been to gay male club that refused non gay men entry!

"Sometimes staging your own rape is the only way to heal the pain."

—Jussie Smollett.

R189 - actually, it used to happen at gay bars and danceclubs - albeit years ago. Although I haven't really heard of it in the past 20 years.

But it did happen.

There you go, R191, I never knew that. I came out in 2001 and started going to clubs around late 2001/early 2002. It wasn't like that at all then.

I do wonder if the difference is in the size of the city too. I have heard that things are more segregated in huge cities like LA where there are enough people to split off into "gay", "lesbian", etc. Not heard of people being actually removed though.

I'm from a mid-size city at the far end of Australia. Everyone was always included.

"Oleebia! Oleebia! Help me I'm being sexually harrassed by gay men!

[quote]"Gay bars are closing. Maybe that's a good thing"

This is something the 700 Club would say.

R192 - it was actually for more underground NYC late-night dance clubs and other bars where sexual activity could happen.

Lots of "leather" bars had restrictions - even the ones that were 'leather-lite' and didn't really have any backrooms, just the 'theme' and some hardcore sex videos playing on some monitors.

I use quotations because there were some leather bars that were just bars and discos. A holdover from the 70's I guess when that shit was popular.

I didn't go to any of the gay places that had guys in swings, open sex or even backrooms and yet there were plenty that didn't allow women.

Boy Bar was one of them. The band Book of Love wrote a song about - wanna hear it? Here it go..

"i wanna be where the boys are, but I"m not allowed. I wait outside of the BoysBar. I wait for them to all to come out. It's not my fault - but I'm not a boy"

But R195 didn't those places ban some men too? Like if you were wearing cologne, or fantasy boots, or something else they considered inauthentic.

R195 that actually makes more sense though if they were sex on premises sites. In that case, I understand why it was limited to men, seeing as they were places for men to go have sex with men.

R193, would you marry me? Please?

[quote] [R195] that actually makes more sense though if they were sex on premises sites. In that case, I understand why it was limited to men, seeing as they were places for men to go have sex with men.

Wow, way to be transphobic. Another reason why these cisplaces need to close.

R196 - some harder core leather places had dress codes - some still do. That was extremely common for those kind of places.

No, I'm talking about no women allowed and no rules against men. Just no women. I can think of 5 bars and clubs off the top of my head that didn't allow women.

[quote] Wow, way to be transphobic. Another reason why these cisplaces need to close.

Assuming you're not joking, then you are a joke. Just because someone, or a whole bar full of people don't want to talk to, flirt with, or hook up with a crossdressing jerk is reason for the destruction of bars worldwide? More trans-fascism. You can stomp your cheap high heels all you want. The majority of people only tolerate trannies and dragsters onstage as entertainment. We're not going to be your friend or fuck you or marry you.

That's not trans"phobia." It's trans-dismissal.

I think R198 is being a parody. At least, I hope so!

If transphobia exists, is there ex-gayphobia too?

Is there some base in psychiatric treatment in staging your own rape being therapeutic? Or is it all bullshit.

DL psychologists, counselors etc. please weigh in.

[quote] I've heard of men being kicked out of lesbian bars.

There are like 5 lesbian bars in the entire country.

Maybe they're just saving room for lesbians--you know, since there are only 5 lesbian bars in a country of 330 million people.

Find your own fucking spaces and leave the "cis-gay" spaces alone you narcissistic fucks. Some spaces JUST AREN'T FOR YOU

The more I look into this issue, the more the word narcissist seems accurate (whether in a medical way I'm not sure, but certainly in a layperson meaning). It's a constant demand from some people to have everything centred around them.

Make your own kind of music.

That NY Magazine cover and pull quote is....disturbing.

Try creating a thread about either, R208, and see how long it will last before getting nuked to oblivion. Last year at least three threads about Mac and the celebration of her phalloplasty were deleted. It's clearly a forbidden topic on Datalounge.

[quote] nuked to oblivion… clearly a forbidden topic on Datalounge.

This morning's thread about the handsome and stupid Jens Orback committing 'race-suicide' was also 'nuked to oblivion'.

Didn't see that thread, but I did see that the thread about "exposing advocates of communal showers" got the nuke earlier today, which was surprising.

R221 Our secret moderator operates in strange ways.

The pics I've seen of that Gabriel Mac - she looks sorta like KD Lang!

The newer Whoopi threads are getting deleted too.

Clearly the writer doesn't live in any area where minorities are a good chunk of the population. California gay bars were always full with Latino husbears.

I think the writer got turned down by someone he really wanted to fuck and is now unable to move on from it.

"They told me I could have anything I wanted! I don't understand!"

so weak are the memories of the now... to have forgotten the feminist led moral crusades against the scourage of gay bars... and even sex spas.

as no place should be free of women. rreeeeeeeeeee!

[quote]I think the writer got turned down by someone he really wanted to fuck and is now unable to move on from it.

A white guy.

The real tell is his saying he desires a more inclusive space for everyone when gay bars have generally been inclusive as to who they let in already. Because what he's really talking about is people's choice not to fuck someone if they don't wish to, and this is what he thinks of as being exclusive.

Oh STFU r18.

Gay rights & women’s rights go hand-in-hand.

We see you. Your powers of division don’t work here.

[quote]Drew Gregory looks like the lead singer of an 80s hair metal band.

Still looks like a boy...

R224, he should perform “You Spin Me Round”

Why bother giving the author all this attention? He is a nobody.

[quote]he should perform “You Spin Me Round”

That's a very good suggestion!

[quote]let them continue out of site?

Oh, dear!

[quote]The band Book of Love wrote a song about - wanna hear it? Here it go..

I love, love, love you for saying this.

I’m dying right now.

[quote]I've heard of men being kicked out of lesbian bars. And then there's Michfest.

Man on the land!

MAN ON THE LAND!!

I’m a plain looking guy. I’ve had better luck at sports bars than at gay ones.

Wait, I thought only dyke bars were closing 🤔

R198 You're a put-on or troll, right?

^I have to believe that poster was joking about that type of person, otherwise...

Oh, Drew. Never change...

Oh no! Not a backlash against sex scenes! (in other words: huh?)

There’s only a backlash against cis sex scenes.

If there is a backlash against sex scenes, it could be as simple as people just getting over it. For years now most sex scenes in TV and movies are simply gratuitous attempts at tittilating the audience rather than moving the story along, being important to the plot, etc. I find myself tuning out during those most of the time.

However, a good sex scene that moves the plot along is a different thing. It just seems like it's a lot rarer.

Gay bars closing is not a good thing. In today's world of online social media connections and remoteness, real life in person gathering is important. Humans are very much a social animal and we need to interact for emotional well being.

[quote]real life in person gathering is important. Humans are very much a social animal and we need to interact for emotional well being.

I agree. Don't know how we combat what is happening though. Mobile phones became commonplace with everyone by the time I was in my early 20s and social media by my mid-20s and I've seen firsthand (as have many of us) the change most humans have gone through re: being less able to communicate face to face. It's too comfortable for most people to not have to be social, despite the fact we need it badly. It's a shame. I'm a shy-ish sort of person, but I would much prefer to have to go to a bar if I want to meet a guy. But these days, even if you try to be more social and communicate in the 'old' way, well it's no good if no one else does it. People even wear the whole 'I have enough friends I don't need any more' badge like pride.

Intimacy coordinators are bamboozlers. For an actual sex scene, sure. But currently they are asserting their necessity for any kind of touch, period. In the culture of fear that permeates work environments, these barnacles have insinuated themselves into productions where they're mostly unwelcome but tolerated by actors.

"Cis" is a slur. I don't accept that label any more than I accept the label "f*ggot."

The "queer" folx are all about the idea that you have to call them what they want to be called. They decide their own name, their own sexual designation, their own pronouns, and you better fall in line or expect a meeting with HR or a doxxing or worse.

And they also decide what [italic]you[/italic] will be called: A cisman.

Their rallying cry:

"You're cis! You're pissed? Get used to it!"

This is why I am thrilled President Biden did not spend one moment regarding trans issues during the State Of The Union speech - as opposed to the loathesome Obama and creepy Valerie Jarret, who began this ridiculous trans bs in the last year of his Presidency.

If you think you have some sort of right to be desired by others, grow up- and go home. No one is cat nip to everyone they want to be- and yes- good looking fit people get hit on more than others, grow up and go home if you don’t like it. Some day they will be old and have the same problem if they haven’t “grown up”.

Luckily the Eagle in NYC is as much fun as any gay bar I recall. And I don’t expect to be everyone’s hardon.

I might add- I welcome trans folks to the Eagle. But that does not mean I want to have sex with them. I don’t want to have sex with she/hers either. Just men thank you.

Almost every gay man I know (not queer, but gay) has pretty much abandoned what is now called queer or gay culture. No Pride parades, no queer/gay clubs or bars, etc. Why? Because a major portion of those places or activities are embarrassing, that's why. Wasn't always this way.

For many of us, the so-called "gay community" has ceased to exist.

^Some people think it is just due to older gay guys aging and things being different, but in my real life discussions with people, younger gay guys feel the same way too, a lot of the time. Just questioning a lot of what our community has become (and the nice thing is that you don't really hear anti-trans stuff there either, as most of the guys I've spoken to say - "I wish them well". It's the modern day "queer activism" that a lot of gay guys seem to find baffling).

Hopefully gay clubs make a comeback, or go underground. Again.

R248: From your computer keyboard, to God's ears.

Sure, if random overweight pink-haired, angry enbys can't get laid in a gay bar, then it's only fair and just that all gay bars should close and NOBODY can get laid.

Apart from the tantruming, I propose the death penalty for every clickbait & listicle writer who uses the "and that's a good thing" suffix after something that is most definitely NOT a good thing.

"Food prices are sky-high. Why that's a good thing." "Drug-resistant syphilis is on the rise, and that's a good thing." "Trump will win in 2024, and here's why that's a good thing."

[quote]In the year since I’ve personally added gay bars back into my social repertoire, something about them has felt lukewarm. The same, tired scene plays out pretty much every time I cross the threshold: Shirtless men with abs look me up and down....

How often do you see shirtless men in gay bars? Is this confused writer talking about dance clubs, which are something entirely different?

Also, is this writer feeks the experience of gay bars has changed greatly since the reopening after the pandemic (and I'm sure many people don't agree), I wonder what the writer thinks is the reason for that?

It was never meant to be a space for every human being on earth. Gay bars were for gay men, not lesbians, not drag queens, not trans people, not queers.

Lesbian bars were for women, not everyone else in the free world.

Most of these bars are closing because people like the author have forced their way inside a place that wasn't about them and then screamed like children that their needs weren't being met. Heaven forbid anyone make a club for people like themselves.

The author and his/its ilk - what a useless, stupid cunt.

They have been writing this same article for about 10 years now and, somehow, gay bars are still open.

That's right, R253. It's the type of article that sites publish far too often: an obituary in the hopes of a death.

Yeah, there is a real sense of "some gay guys didn't want to fuck me so therefore if I'm not validated, no one should have this space!" about it.

Jeez, most of us grew up going to clubs and learning the harsh reality early that there are some guys who are really into you, others who really aren't, and that's ok. The guy who wrote the article isn't that ugly, he just needs to accept some people won't be into him, and also, unfortunately some gay guys are cunts about it. Learn to develop the thick skin the rest of us had to.

Also - the author seems to have no idea what bars are FOR. Like - of course some people are going to be rude to you or overlook you. That's what happens when people drink alcohol. For God's sake - bars are not community centers where the staff all have degrees in sociology and a minor in social work. They're gross piss-dens where guys blow each other.

[quote]Yeah, there is a real sense of "some gay guys didn't want to fuck me so therefore if I'm not validated, no one should have this space!" about it.

You think it’s just this as opposed to the hard left not wanting gays in the public sphere at all? I see very little difference between the hard left and hard right when it comes to gays.

I see very little difference between R257 and a pile of horse shit.

Well at least you didn’t call me a f-ggot^.

Calling you that would be too kind. Not seeing a difference btw the people who want to blow up drag shows and the ppl who are (at worst) annoying is just too dumb to contemplate.